IceFrog Leaves Dota-Allstars.com! WTF??!! - DotA-Blog

IceFrog Leaves Dota-Allstars.com! WTF??!!

WHAT!!?? That is the first thing appears in my mind when i read IceFrog's latest post. If you haven't know, on his latest post, IceFrog decided to leaves Dota-Allstars.com due the result of some differences. It appears he doesn't agree with Pendragon_ (Dota-Allstars.com founder) decision about Dota-Allstars.com, which is currently under remake. Or maybe, there's something to do with League of Legends which Pendragon_ now working on . (Note: this is just my personal opinions)

Anyway below is the quote from his blog:

As a result of some differences, I am no longer affiliated with the dota-allstars.com website. I want to take this opportunity to wish everyone over there the best of luck in the future.

I still plan on continuing DotA development for a long time, a couple years at the very least. The next update, 6.60, is nearing the end of its design and testing phase. The translation phase will also be starting shortly. There is still a little bit more work to do on fixing some specific content, but it's finally approaching completion. I will post another update here in the near future.

As of today, I am starting a new community site for DotA. I think it is more valuable to the players though if I focus most of my time on developing and improving the game, so I'm here to reach out and ask for help on this. I believe that with some organization, the community has some very talented people that can help build a site to serve their interests and needs. Help can come in many different forms: programming, design, technical support, content contributions, etc. My goal is to have a format where everyone that wants to help can contribute in a productive way. If you are interested in being involved, please send me an email at IceFrog@gmail.com


So he decide to make new website for Dota-Allstars. Ok, now i become confused. Let me search what's really going on from the forums. Stay tuned! In the mean time feel free to tell your opinion about this important matter. This event can change the whole fate of Dota-Allstars development.. (and Dota-Allstars.com too)

Update: Check this thread for Pendragon_ confirmation about IceFrog statement.

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93 comments:

  1. Yes, he has left...

    this:
    http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=284375&view=findpost&p=3770872

    ReplyDelete
  2. @afis - Thanks, i'm currently read that thread. Btw, are you the same afis i met on the LabProg?

    ReplyDelete
  3. i can't believe this is actually happening..

    ReplyDelete
  4. I'm still waiting for either Ice or Pen to post: "lolz guyz, chill out, it was just a joke!"

    Too surreal to be true.

    ReplyDelete
  5. I would like to see a site that tracks stats via the new patcher program. A competing forum is a lame idea.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Yes, i also hoped this is just a joke. And yet i notice April Fools already passed :(

    Well, let's hope this doesn't affect Dota development in general..

    ReplyDelete
  7. Well i only know one thing , and that is where Icefrog is that is the place i will be.I have a great respect for him and think he needs to be well payed for the things he does for us . Some stupid companies are making shit load of money for idiotic games and Ice is left out , fuck you all!!! Go Frog

    ReplyDelete
  8. I don't think this is _that_ big of deal. I'm sure Dota development will continue as it has before.
    It's too bad this happened, but not worth all the drama I'm seeing.

    ReplyDelete
  9. bitch war anyone? :<

    ReplyDelete
  10. Froggy supporterMay 15, 2009 at 5:19 PM

    What is really happening? Can anyone give me a simple answer why icefrog is going on his own? What did Pendragon did?

    Anyway, we all loveee icefrog right? :)

    ReplyDelete
  11. Froggy supporter: There's no answer. Both IceFrog & Pendragon refuse to give an explanation.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Froggy supporterMay 15, 2009 at 6:14 PM

    There are explanations, but there are no direct answer.

    According to the forum,

    I think it got to do with Pendragon making money from dota?? i'm not sure.

    And LoL is being related to this issue.

    ABOVE ALL, are my opinions only.

    ReplyDelete
  13. The speculations are:

    - League of Legends and Pendagron trying to make money off a Dota-based game
    - DotaPatcher app
    - The article on gamasutra on the history of Dota by Pendragon which mentions IceFrog only once in the 5-page story.

    Again: all speculations by forum members, nothing official

    ReplyDelete
  14. Froggy supporterMay 15, 2009 at 6:56 PM

    I agree to the above.

    Knowing that LoL will do some damage to the DotA community, Pendragon is still promoting LoL is the official DotA forum.

    Well, no one to blame - its his forum, its his job.

    I think DotA and Icefrog is still great. It will still be popular within cybercafes. Best of all, its free.

    ReplyDelete
  15. If Icefrog does not ike like DotA-Allstars.com anymore, it doesn't matter. As long as he still updates the map, I'm fine with anything :)
    Also, I believe League of Legends is a free game right? If not, I doubt many would play it -_-
    Finally, Icefrog's decision is final. If he wants to leave the site, let him. He can do anything he wants and we would still support him, even if he really has to stop updating DotA, we would support his decision. He committed loads of time on DotA, he deserves the right to make a choice on what he wants and doesn't want.

    [Icefrog- DotA: Allstars] 4ever

    ReplyDelete
  16. Froggy supporterMay 15, 2009 at 7:29 PM

    Yeah, come to think of it:

    Why Ice have to leave at this time? Isn't he is developing 6.60 in its final stage? Moving to a new site cost extra time + money.

    Guys, something serious must happened for Ice to take this step. We all support Icefrog !!!

    ReplyDelete
  17. Froggy SupporterMay 15, 2009 at 7:32 PM

    @ frozen_hunter

    LoL is not a free game. We have to pay. I'm 95% confirm with that.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Froggy SupporterMay 15, 2009 at 7:35 PM

    @ frozen_hunter

    LoL is not a free game. We have to pay. I'm 95% confirm with that.

    ReplyDelete
  19. if we will have to pay, so be it!!! but i think it'll be useless!! why???!!!! in every internet based game, for example are GG n BNET, a player who have an official map, example is, a 6.60 map, which he/she already paid to have it, then he/she created a game on the net, and let any opposition DL it, then it'll b useless!!!! it think there must b a deep interaction between icefrog n blizzard about this..ITS FUCKING COMPLICATED NOW!!! hope all the websites (BLOGS OF DOTA SITES) involve must have a mutual agreement on this!!!they should consider the millions of gamers of DotA!!! to decide whats for the best for us gamers!!!! anyway w/o DotA those sites will not exists..to you sir Alief, convene w/ other DotA sites now together w/ icefrog!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  20. Hi there, do you even know whats LoL? Its not a WC3 custom game you know?

    ReplyDelete
  21. DotA will be free, LoL is NOT DOTA OR blizzard

    ReplyDelete
  22. it'll b depend on the terms between icefrog n blizzard.. its a serious issue ryt now n im saddened..from what i have knowned, dota-allstars n blizzard have a binding agreement..what'll happen??!!! WORST CASE SCENARIO!!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  23. @raz44

    wtf are you talking about.. LoL, which is League of Legends, is a game developed by Riot Games which Pendragon_ is part of. The dudes before you who posted said LoL will not be free. They didn't say Dota will become pay to play. LoL = pay to play. Dota = completely free (unless you take into consideration that you have to buy wc3) DotA =/= LoL. Ok get that in your head -_-"

    ReplyDelete
  24. i had received a msg form dota-allstar.com

    it said the history of Pendragon....


    damn stupid msg = =
    just let all players know who is pendragon

    ReplyDelete
  25. dota-allstar.com

    S2222H2222*2222T

    ReplyDelete
  26. icefrog olny leave dota allstar.com only... as he quote...

    i would like join ice frog
    coz i seen there is some problem in dotaallstar.com that icefrog might be seen....

    ReplyDelete
  27. Froggy SupporterMay 15, 2009 at 10:56 PM

    What problem you seen there?

    As u all can see, Pendragon is using some cheap tactic to get people. I just couldn't stand him promoting LoL in his interview, HE EVEN made it sticky.

    Just my opinion, nothing to do with anyone.

    ReplyDelete
  28. i hope all of u understand that icefrog is not foolish enough to stay with a dead dota community :\. Pen hardly cares about making a future for dota hence "League of legends". i believe this was a smart decision from ice to do things his own way for once.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Umm.. Just a question.. i don't know if it have something to do with D-a.com But..
    The Site for download will still be getdota.com right?

    SOrry for my english

    ReplyDelete
  30. Hmmm Penragon stated, that he'll support LoL, which is totally okay. But considering how he talked about Icy in his last interview (like guinsoo made DotA what it i noe, Icy only did the rest; Whic is IMO nonsense coz guinsoo had a terrible feeling 4 balancing). It is really saddening how such an important person (Pendragon) for the Dota Community gets baited and betrays his friends. Sad, but a Forum is not essential for the map itself

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  31. ohh thaank god


    i thought o nohhh no more dota?
    but when i continue reading it was the site only but not the real dota


    thank god

    ReplyDelete
  32. Oooooohhh.... someone has a fight.
    Pendragon vs icefrog hahahaha,
    god I also though he was leaving.

    ReplyDelete
  33. IceFrog do not worry i will forever on your side!!! i think this tiny pennydradon(LOL!) are such a greed person, how could he use dotaallstars to promote his League of legend. Im sure this is was the reason of the problem.

    ReplyDelete
  34. @ above post

    probably true -_- which is why ice should split off from that BAD INCLUENCE!

    ReplyDelete
  35. You guys are making a big deal out of nothing. Pendragon wants to use dota-allstars.com to promote League of Legends, and there's nothing wrong in that. It's the only way for DotA-like games to break free of Blizzard. Or what, do you expect to play DotA on WC3 for the next 10 years?
    Even IceFrog will probably move on to Starcraft 2 when the time comes. But unlike Pendragon, he wants to keep making free maps. Nothing wrong with that either.
    This is why they've split up (probably). And IceFrog hasn't said "Pendragon sux, don't visit his site anymore!". There's no reason for us to behave childishly. We can visit both sites, you know.

    ReplyDelete
  36. @Above said,

    No no no no no no & No!!!,

    Dota is Dota and LoL is LoL both are very difference thing, you should to see the LoL before you post.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Hail Icefrog!
    Icefrog has given us so much, we should give him the right to make whatever decision he wants.
    Anyway, Blizzard might come up with WC4 sometime in the future, lets have hope in that.
    [Icefrog- DotA: Allstars] 4ever

    ReplyDelete
  38. Hail Icefrog!
    Icefrog has given us so much, we should give him the right to make whatever decision he wants.
    Anyway, Blizzard might come up with WC4 sometime in the future, lets have hope in that.
    [Icefrog- DotA: Allstars] 4ever

    ReplyDelete
  39. to all the noobs who think pendragon cares about the dota community!!! HE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT ANYMORE now that icefrog is gone, hes home free to do w.e the fuck he wants!!!! stop posting pointless shit here if u dont understand the situation

    Both have set out for different paths: if ur interested in DotA Folo icefrog - if not then go to hell and betray icefrog for some scrub wannabe

    ty for reading :D

    ReplyDelete
  40. @above post,

    haha 2x thumbs up for you! yes i agreed this pendragon only think about $$$ for his LoL. icefrog im with u, gogogo!!!

    ReplyDelete
  41. if i were icefrog i will felt like being betrayel, well after all that he have done from the every version of dota is this what he got?? betrayel??? please give a support to icefrog if u realy want he to continue development on Dota.

    ReplyDelete
  42. We've discussed this in forums,but I haven't ended in a conclusion.
    However,what I believe is that Icefrog knew that Pendragon needed the site for LoL and maybe because they are friends and Icefrog is a really good person (yes he is),he decided to help Pendragon by "just leaving" the website which was never his,but Pen's...
    just my opinion :P

    ReplyDelete
  43. the explanation is here:

    http://ninjaspartans.blogspot.com/2009/05/league-of-legends-and-dota-controversy.html

    ReplyDelete
  44. @ Anonymous above.
    I've read that and I can't find a single part, that is unlogical. It MIGHT the blogger's own opinion, but it seems to be the way, that Pendragon wants to take the DotA Community to LoL. Remember, he bougt 23 aditional servers, and is forbidden to make a single cent from DotA (Blizzard!). You can say whatever you want, but Icefrog left the community without a bad word. I think hes dissapointed though. These are so called friends...

    ReplyDelete
  45. I hope you in dota ice frog..
    finish what you must finish..
    and always make your idea for dota come true...

    from your fans and dota fans

    ReplyDelete
  46. Again more rubbish.
    As of now, dota-allstars.com is a FAN-SITE for DotA. LIKE THIS ONE. Just visiting it doesn't mean you're "betraying" IceFrog.
    So Pendragon's decided to make money out his website by putting up ads for LoL etc. So what?
    You people are making a mountain over a molehill. Stop sensationalizing something simple, for God's sake.
    I'm still going to visit both sites.

    And what exactly do all of you mean by "please support IceFrog"? If you mean continue to download and play DotA, why would you even have to ask that of people? Of course we'll keep playing. Nothing has changed with the map itself. Just the official site will change.

    Seriously, this isn't a war between IceFrog and Pendragon. Stop making it out to be like that. See this for reference:
    http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2397/icefrogleavesda.png

    ReplyDelete
  47. Ok,the only 2 logical reasson I could come up with are:
    Icefrog is a friend of Pendragon_ he decided to leave the forum to him like a return for all the time he was hosting Ice's game on a forum so Pendragon_ gets more support for LoL.
    OR
    Pendragon_ is a guy that simply pushed Icefrog to the limit of leaving the dota-allstars forum for personal gain.

    ....I think it's the first,because that site didn't belong to Icefrog anyway and Pendragon_ stated that he had 50k dollars and needed to spent it on a reworked site...

    AND DONT FORGET THAT THIS SITE WILL NO LONGER BE CALLED DOTA ALLSTARS.IF PENDRAGON MAKES A SINGLE ADVERTISING BEFORE HE CHANGED THAT NAME,HE IS AN ASS,OTHERWISE NOT

    ReplyDelete
  48. http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2397/icefrogleavesda.png

    HASUIOASHOIUASHOSAIUHAOIUHSAUIAShASUIHASOIUHSAOASIUHASUIHASUIHAU

    good one redrach

    ReplyDelete
  49. redrach, you 're still underestimating the whole thing. There is a huge benefit to be made out of the DotA Community. IF you are abl to implement them to the whole LoL-scene it is easy to make LOADS OF $$$. The prob is easily to be seen in the Pendragon interview. How much does he honor Icefrogs contribution to DotA Allstars. Hes totally adoring Guinsoo, who IMO did less than Eul or Icy did fpr DotA. It is obvious that Icefrog just went away with no regrets or any bad words for Pendragon, which RLY shows what a man he is: A guy who cares about the community, not about money. I'd like to hear your answer (Goddamnit im too fuckin' boozed)

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  50. Simply put it this way: IceFrog does not wish to be apart of League Of Legends in any way shape or form.

    ReplyDelete
  51. I do not see how ideas from the DotA community being implemented in LoL can be a bad thing. It's not like Pendragon owns copyright over any suggestions made on his forums. Both DotA and LoL can benefit from the good ideas.
    I can understand a feeling of loyalty towards this great game that we've been playing for so long, but that shouldn't translate into animosity towards a similar product.
    It's not like LoL will draw away players from DotA either, it has the severe disadvantage of being NOT FREE. Millions will continue to play DotA no matter how good LoL is. But as a prospective player, I want LoL to be as good as it can be as well.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Pendragon is just using the famous dota to advertise his league of legends to own money and LOL be famous too!

    PS: don't play League of Legends
    what's lol anyway? Is it played in warcraft?

    ReplyDelete
  53. Pendragon is just using the famous dota to advertise his league of legends to own money and LOL be famous too!
    Yes. So? It's his site you know.

    PS: don't play League of Legends.
    No. Why shouldn't I?

    what's lol anyway? Is it played in warcraft?
    Oh, so you don't even know what it is. And you're asking people not to play it. Nice.

    ReplyDelete
  54. just Don't play it! It's maker is a betrayal!
    where's the answer to my questions?
    is it a warcraft custom map too?

    ReplyDelete
  55. @above

    LoL is a stand alone game, completely unrelated to warcraft 3. And to clear things up, Pendragon_ didn't make LoL, he joined Riot Games when the plans for LoL were actually made. He is just part of it, not actually THE maker.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Hey,look the good side of all this.At least Icefrog will release 6.60 soon :p

    ReplyDelete
  57. what about the ai makers?

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  58. i'd consider playing LOL if it would take the best things about dota and build up a better game apon that - maybe i'd even pay a small amount of money once ( no monthly fee or some bs like that of course )... but since the graphics are just as ugly as warcraft I SURELY WONT DO :-)

    ReplyDelete
  59. well the DOTA creator is always the right. DOTA is the most cheapest and the best game i ever played as a team. thanks icefrog.

    ReplyDelete
  60. well i think that the situation is clear:

    Dota 5v5, Pro Only, Ban On

    Sentinel: IceFrog, Pendragon ...
    Scourge: Riot, Pudge, Venge ...

    sentinel are ownin,
    in bottom lane are icefrog and pendragon vs Riot, and then the unexpected happens
    pendragon uses the -switchdick command ( a command that instantly switches the player with no voting )
    pendragon then stuns icefrog and riot finishes him of


    after 30 sec IceFrog revived and went to the secret shop and got a big dildo and stick it up in Pendragons ... , GAME OVER Pendragon banned for using cheat

    :) my full support for iceforg from WarChief

    ReplyDelete
  61. ICEFROGYY vs pen(is)dragon

    Woahahaha...
    Bet... who will win?

    ReplyDelete
  62. redrach said...
    You guys are making a big deal out of nothing. Pendragon wants to use dota-allstars.com to promote League of Legends, and there's nothing wrong in that.

    YuH! redrach is totally right! I agree!

    ReplyDelete
  63. @ redrach & esequel

    you two are the dumbest persons here in this blog!! BLOGGER: DotA allstars.com!!!! you two are disgrace here in this site!! are you insulting this site or jaz dont know the meaning of it!!

    "You guys are making a big deal out of nothing. Pendragon wants to use dota-allstars.com to promote League of Legends, and there's nothing wrong in that."

    cmon man!! goto LOL blog n promote there FAGGOTS!!!

    ReplyDelete
  64. @ redrach & esequel

    you two are the dumbest persons here in this blog!! BLOGGER: DotA allstars.com!!!! you two are disgrace here in this site!! are you insulting this site or jaz dont know the meaning of it!!

    "You guys are making a big deal out of nothing. Pendragon wants to use dota-allstars.com to promote League of Legends, and there's nothing wrong in that."

    cmon man!! goto LOL blog n promote there FAGGOTS!!!

    ReplyDelete
  65. alief your blog is great i find everything related to dota here but your blog address is to big to type it takes 10 seconds for me to type your blog address can your make it dota.com etc ?

    ReplyDelete
  66. @above - well, it's not that i didn't realize this problem. Even i something a little bit lazy to type my own blog name lol

    Anyway, your comment is come in perfect timing. Just wait a litle bit, right now i'm making a post about this ;)

    ReplyDelete
  67. raz44, there's no need to be rude. I do not post here to insult anyone.
    I have no reason to promote LoL, I have not played it, or even visited its website.
    All I'm saying is that the owner of dota-allstars.com is free to put up whatever ads he wants on his site, just as alief here puts up plenty of ads on his blog. Nothing wrong with that.
    And the reason I'm talking about LoL on a DotA blog in the first place, is that a lot of DotA fans seem to think they should now "boycott" the dota-allstars.com website for some reason. Considering how useful that site is to me, I'm hoping the user base does not disappear. Especially since we do not yet know the extent and scope of IceFrog's new website.

    ReplyDelete
  68. hmm i agree no more quarreling! i like this site too but this site should renamed..that way, all internet based games should b catered here..DotA's popularity really influences everyone of us n every DotA sites, accept that!! man, WE prefer (w/ my friends n clan members) this site than other Dota sites!

    ReplyDelete
  69. Well icefrog is the developer of DOTA, he know what the best for DOTA.

    Pendragon and his crew want to continually move DotA All-Stars to something more commercial. They are going through phases to make the target market of League of Legends soften up to a commercial version of DotA All-Stars. By harnessing the power of the existing DotA-AllStars.com communiity with it's millions of registered users, Riot Games would have a ready market for it's baby.

    Icefrog wants DotA All-Stars to be what it currently is: a free to download Warcraft map that is meant to be enjoyed even if the game developers do not get a single cent from dedicating their time on it.

    If icefrog continues his development in WC3 i will continue play in there, if he continue in LoL i will Play LoL... hehe

    ReplyDelete
  70. IceFrog leaves DotA-Allstars.com because Pendragon_ is advertising League of Legends in the website!
    And when time comes that League of Legends become more famous than DotA, DotA will be a piece of crap otherwise LoL will dominate which IceFrog and also me don't want to happen! That's why IceFrog leaved!

    LoL @ LoL
    let's pray LoL will not succeed! Don't even try to play it!

    Dragon vs. Frog
    who will win?
    I bet to the frog!

    ReplyDelete
  71. well...if we're gonna stay on the subject of Ads....Alief, you may want to consider not having 800 pointless Ads all over the screen...just psyhologically...one well placed ad is better than 800 useless ones and you will end result in more money. considering the probably high volume of traffic you get each time a beta is leaked, you may want to look into it.

    ReplyDelete
  72. OMG ALIEF!!! YOU COULD HELP ICEFROG WITH HIS NEW WEBSITE!!!!! MAYBE MAKING THE OFFICIAL ONE INSTEAD OF THIS(no offense)??

    But i will surely miss the Beta leaks.

    ReplyDelete
  73. for me sir alief is so so cool in this blog..he is a great moderator here!! its up to him whatever his decision might be (i mean concerning the above post by ultra-jacker)..my clan n my friends will always support him!!

    ReplyDelete
  74. what about the dota ai makers what is their stand on this matter

    ReplyDelete
  75. U know what, i think "BLIZZARD" is the one who should give full support to icefrog, what i mean they should give some benefit to he and his crew, they got millions of warcraft3 user that play icefrog game that is DOTA. but i've heard icefrog didn't get any cents or benefit by development the DOTA on warcraft3. Sad...

    ICEFROG! move on LoL keep your dota development in there, hehe at least we can play new brand of dota the same time u got $$$ for your hard work.

    btw dota is my TOP game, will forever play it.

    ReplyDelete
  76. if icefrog really leave dota-allstar,then what about dota 6.60?Will it continue to be post or delay?

    ReplyDelete
  77. i have a feeling icefrog will release 6.60 once his new website is up so he can post the next version along with the changelog ect. since he clearly stated he is no longer affiliated with DotA-allstars.com this upcoming version will not be released on that site.

    If this is the case then DotA version 6.60 will be delayed until further notice.

    :\

    ReplyDelete
  78. @ above

    yup thats right!!!

    ReplyDelete
  79. no its not, getdota was always separated from dota-allstars and was owned by icefrog himself.
    So it would be enough to post it there and a news on his blog.

    ReplyDelete
  80. @above..

    this site is the blog site of dota-allstars.com which and getdota.com is another under dota-allstars.com w/c is the same site where icefrog left..but who cares!!!
    this site is cool!!!

    ReplyDelete
  81. guys,,, does any of you know when EXACTLY 6.60 will be released? any info from insider? feels like i've been waiting for ages!

    thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  82. its getting close to the end of june and still no news about the release.....

    sigh

    ReplyDelete
  83. Whoa...

    is still may, and we are closing to the end june.

    that is fun

    ReplyDelete
  84. so u guys just took a year to say none of u know anything for sure? and no 6.60 is never coming out......but god i wish it would

    ReplyDelete
  85. Hey even thought I vowed to be on IceFrog side LoL shouldn't be blamed. I think you just just yell at Dragon for advertising it and making it LoL a game that you (might) have to pay for...

    ReplyDelete
  86. after that the pro-Icefrogs and pro-Pendragaon's came out...
    well eitherway...we just play dota anyway...

    might as well fight themselves at mybrute.

    nyahahah!...

    ReplyDelete
  87. I believe as much as I can gather from putting real facts together, that the real story is that Icefrog has started supporting some company. Not going to name names at the is point but he is supporting something. And he has every right to do so.

    So he wanted to use his fame to make this new thing "popular". I think that's perfectly fine for IceFrog to do. So you need a community to do it. So either you take control of the largest community by taking over a site, or you use your fame to redirect people to a new site.

    Of course this is just speculation. I wouldn't be surprised if Icefrog asked for a share of DAS.

    Anyway only PD and Icefrog really know the true. However if it is like this, we should find out shortly. Does this change your option?

    ReplyDelete
  88. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  89. Friend I want to know who the makers of dota heroes
    My name is Dihan Amiluhur
    Thx :)

    ReplyDelete